Anonymous asked: Hook is not a piece of shit because he regrets past actions and tries to better himself, CS is healthy because Hook always praises Emma, refuses to abandon her and will do anything for her, and his redemption arc is not based around just wanting Emma since he's also shown regret and a desire to change based around things unrelated to Emma (remember Ariel and how ashamed he was of how he handled that?) That, in a nutshell, is why. If you can't see it, then that's on you, not the writers/actors.
I’m just going to assume that this message is about this post. If not, feel free to correct me.
"Hook is not a piece of shit…"
Sorry, I needed a moment to laugh. Let’s continue.
"He regrets his past actions and tries to better himself…"
- Has he shown any remorse for making Bae grow up thinking his mother was dead? No, didn’t think so.
- Has he show any remorse for helping a woman abandon her son, after he himself claims to have been abandoned? Didn’t think so.
- Has he shown any remorse for selling out Bae to Pan? Didn’t think so. In fact, he continues to act like he and Bae had a good relationship. What a prick.
- Has he shown any remorse for helping Cora? None whatsoever.
- Has he shown any remorse for leaving Regina to be tortured? None. And it doesn’t matter what Regina has done because she had done nothing to him directly and therefore he had no reason or right to leave her there. Does he have any morals? Like at all? Jesus.
- Has he shown any remorse for standing aside and letting Cora rip the hearts out of the villagers he had lived among for months? No, instead he hid under their corpses. Those people trusted him; he was the town blacksmith. But he stood aside and did nothing to stop Cora.
- Has he shown any remorse for leaving Emma, Snow, Mulan, and Aurora in Rumplestiltskin’s cell to die? No, it’s like the fandom and the characters have brushed that under the rug.
- Has he shown any remorse for trying to send Henry to New York without his mothers’ permission, even though he knew New York was dangerous and that Zelena could get there? No. He tried to act like he was being a hero. By sending a child off alone into a dangerous area. Yes, much hero, very regret, wow.
- Has he shown any remorse for harming Archie? Didn’t think so.
- Has he shown any remorse for any of the three times he tried to kill Belle? No, his apology was a joke.
The only person he has shown remorse toward is Ariel. That’s the only thing he has owned up to.
“CS is healthy because Hook always praises Emma…” So you consider it healthy for him to praise her with lies?
“Emma, you defeated Pan.” That’s a lie. Rumple killed Pan.
“Emma, you defeated Zelena.” That’s a lie. Regina defeated Zelena.
“I was there when Cora tried to rip out your heart.” Were you, Hook? Were you really?
You were unconscious, you lying piece of shit.
He “refuses to abandon her”?
Then tell me what happened here, when Hook ABANDONS Emma in the Dark One’s cell. After she begs him not to.
I couldn’t find a gif of him calling her “dried up and useless” so here’s a picture of him ABANDONING her.
He “will do anything for her, and his redemption arc is not based around just wanting Emma…”
Oh, so you mean when he helped Charming and his redemption arc “started.” Oh wait. He did that to get Emma. And he doesn’t even deny it.
So, is it still on me, Anon? Or is it on the writers? Is on it me that none of this has been addressed? Or is it on the writers for being lazy and whitewashing Hook rather than redeeming him? Unless you have more of a compelling argument, please stay away from my inbox.
charmedrumbelle, it seems that someone has tried to explain why Hook is not a piece of shit. But it wasn’t compelling, so they don’t get the money…
Anonymous asked: You talk so much about how CSers can only defend Hook by insulting Neal, but all I see you doing is defending Neal by insulting Hook.
This only happens when the discussion is directly about people attempting to compare Hook and Neal in Hook’s favor.
I’ve made posts in the past about Neal and Swanfire, about both their positive and negative aspects, without ever mentioning Hook outside of his actual involvement in Neal’s story.
Neal doesn’t need to be compared to anyone to make him look better. He’s a complex character, and that’s a good thing. He has many, many positive qualities and it objectively probably one of the most selfless, decent characters on OUAT. But he does have his flaws, and that’s a wonderful thing. I would never want a character to be perfect. How boring would that be.
Neal’s entire life is informed by repeated abandonment. When he was a child, every nearly every adult who was supposed to love him and protect abandoned him, sometimes in horrible ways. When it came down to it, people who loved him making sacrifices for him, giving things up for him, is something he rarely experienced. This could have turned him into a cold, selfish person. Instead, he took that pain and became an incredibly selfless person. He understood the pain of constantly coming second to the people who loved him, and he became the kind of person who was willing to make sacrifices so he didn’t make people feel that pain.
That doesn’t mean he always did it in the right way. In regards to his relationship with Emma, making that sacrifice led him to make Emma’s decisions for her. In making sacrifices, he sometimes takes complete control of a situation, taking the choice out of other people’s hands.
But he doesn’t expect anything from anyone. How could he? That’s a learned behavior. How could he learn that behavior when for most of his life he was rarely offered anything from anyone. He doesn’t expect anyone to want him, to choose him, because that’s not an experience he’s familiar with. You can’t expect something with which you have no experience.
He doesn’t just expect to be wanted and chosen. So when it came to his relationship with Emma in Storybrooke, he understood that she might not want to be with him. He understood that loving someone doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll choose them. And he was completely willing to accept that. He was willing to let Emma have complete control of that choice, and was willing to just be friends and co-parents if that was what she wanted.
What’s more, he knew that if she didn’t want to be with him, it was because of what he did. He was aware of the mistakes he made, owned up to them, and accepted the fact that those mistakes might mean Emma wouldn’t want to be with him.
One of the things I loved most about his character was his relationship with Henry. He knew how it felt to be abandoned by a parent. He’d experienced it twice (three times, if you count Hook selling him to Pan). So the second he found out he had a son he wanted to give him every bit of love and attention he possibly could, because he never wanted his son to feel unloved or left behind the way he did. His son immediately became the most important thing in his life. Because he knew what it was like to not be the most important thing in his parents’ lives.
Neal was an incredibly selfless man who had some very human flaws. And he doesn’t need to be compared to Hook, or anyone, in order to be made to look that way. He doesn’t have to be. Because that’s just who he is.
Anonymous asked: If you WERE the head writer on OUAT, what changes would you have made?
Honestly, my changes would probably start in season 2.
- Would have written Hook differently. Closer to the book, different motivations, less of a woman abusing asshole.
- If A&E insisted on wanting to keep Rumple a threat, I would’ve had Rumple and Belle break up in The Crocodile. Given Belle her own storyline. Explored Belle outside of her love for Rumple. Would have reunited them later.
- Would have continued with Cora as the main villain and not have rushed headlong into Neverland.
- Would have explored Rumple trying to be better for Neal, Neal not trusting him, misunderstandings ensuing. Would have had Neal and Belle get to know each other.
- Would have written a healthier attraction between Hook and Emma to keep conflict between Neal and Emma—something not quite as rape culture-y. (Swanfire would still clearly be endgame.)
- Would have given Regina a better redemption arc, maybe paralleled it with Rumple, both of them trying to be better for their sons.
- Would have had a Belle vs. Cora faceoff.
- Would have had a Rumbelle reconciliation after a decent redemption arc for Rumple—probably after he joins the “Save Henry” brigade. (Which would take place later in season 3.)
- Would have had Peter Pan the main villain for all of season 3. I like him as a Big Bad. Wouldn’t have killed him off so easily.
- Would have brought in the Wicked Witch played by Rebecca but not have named her Zelena (it is and always will be a stupid name), kept more in with Oz canon, not have made her Regina’s sister, and maybe have had her as an anti-hero, rather than an outright villain. Maybe she had a score to settle with Pan and temporarily joins the others.
- Seriously, why did they kill off Peter Pan so quickly, he makes a rad villain…oh, right, A&E have an “OOH NEW SHINY TOY” problem.
- Probably not have done “Robin Hood is Regina’s soulmate” because that was a weird idea to begin with, breaking up a legendary couple like Robin and Marian. Maybe have played with Hook and Regina a little bit more. Hell, maybe bring in Galahad or Gawain if A&E really wanted to do that kind of romance. You know. Someone SINGLE.
- Explored more of the original characters from season 1 rather than consistently bringing in more and more new characters.
- Not dropped Philip, Aurora, and Mulan like a hot potato. Possibly alluded to a polyamorous relationship between all three, considering it’s been established they all have feelings for each other. (Most likely, anyway.)
- Not killed off Lancelot. Or Tamara.
Please pen this!
girlhitscar asked: What makes some CSers the biggest hypocrites,is that they complain about how we should see the good in Hook instead of his past & how he traded his ship blabla. But meanwhile they keep on reminding everyone how Neal left Emma in jail. While he made up 4 his mistakes like 8 times & acknowledged it with a sincere regret. He even sacrificed his life 4 Emma/Henrys sake. Still CSers refuse to acknowledge that & rather blame him for his past. Hook did worst & still they expect us to forget his past
Every night, for more years than you can know, the last thing I see before I sleep is the image of you— me and you, over that pit. Your hand, wrapped around mine. And then you open your grip. And as I fall away, all I can see is your face. Choosing all this crap over me. Letting me go. Now it’s my turn. Now I’m letting you go.
Anonymous asked: Re: grief. On better-written shows (in which I include your average daytime soap opera), it's usually made clear when someone bangs somebody moments after their lover's death that they are acting out sexually. In a show with any psychological underpinning, Emma would only be turning to Killy Poo BECAUSE she lost the two men she loved, Neal and Walsh, in such short succession, and she's clinging to the one thing that's left.
Good point. Hook is a rebound.
This is so important.
Because if the show had any grounding in emotional reality (which it claims to), Emma would go for Hook because of her string of dead love interests.
Because first (on the show) she lost Graham and watched him die in her arms.
Then she watched August die in her arms, just to have him resurrected into Pinocchio 2.0, so she lost someone who was at least her friend in a manner similar to having lost Graham, then gets him back but it’s not him.
Then she finds out that Neal is back and then he seemingly dies right after admitting that he never really stopped loving her and she watches as he disappears into a vortex to another world (in the same way that he was originally lost from his father).
Then she finds out she almost lost her father, but this charismatic asshat saved him and yes he’s an asshat and asking for a reward but she’s lonely and has lost so much and almost lost even more so she kisses him.
THEN she finds out that Neal is still alive and she has to admit to him that she was hoping that he was dead because she couldn’t go through losing and finding him again because it is too painful. They hug and he tells her it’s ok, but obviously they have some issues to work through.
THEN she has to leave everyone she has ever met in Storybrooke and forget them forever. Her entire family will be gone and she will have no memory of them.
THEN she moves on and has a boyfriend and she thinks she wants to maybe get married to him, but it turns out that he’s actually working for the Wicked Witch and Emma can’t catch a break.
AND THEN she gets back to town and Neal is missing and then they finally find him and then he dies in her arms.
So Emma should clearly be in a place of emotional turmoil because her love interests keep DYING, and that Hook, who has been persistent to the point of being a creeper, is THERE but more importantly he is ALIVE.
Similarly for Hook, he watched his love die in his arms. He pursued revenge for her death for THREE HUNDRED YEARS. And then when it was close, and he thought he had it, his revenge was ripped away from him.
So then his obsession transfers onto Emma. Maybe if Emma will love him then all of the things he did for the past three hundred years will be worth it. He couldn’t avenge Milah’s death, but maybe he can find a new love.
That’s what the show should be showing (pun intended) us. We should see two people who are completely wrapped up in their own emotional problems that they are clinging to someone else in hopes of fixing them. We should see clearly that any relationship that comes out of this will not work in the long term because other people do not exist to fix you and you can’t build a healthy relationship on that premise. We should see them come together desperately and then gradually disintegrate as they realize that it’s not working, and, most importantly, as they realize why it isn’t working. Maybe one of them holds onto the relationship and the other figures it out first, or maybe they both figure it out at the same time, but the show needs a breakup that isn’t because the other person died.
We need to see two adults end an adult relationship with maturity and respect. That show needs this.
Anon and Trekkie have analyzed this so well.
Season 4 OUAT Eddy & Adam Told Us They Will Do 11 Episodes Of Frozen Then The Second Half Will Be Something That We Won’t Find Till It Is Shown DAMNIT
I predict it will be Maleficent and they’ll say we “always planned” to bring her back.
*Hurls into a bucket* These dweebs don’t have anything original anymore do they? They’ve ran out of ideas from their bag of tricks since season 1-2
Anonymous asked: Character development =/= OOC. I get it if you don't like Hook and that's totally fine. I respect your opinion. Different ideas are what makes the world go 'round :D Just please don't insult Adam and Eddy by saying they're "ruining" a character you didn't even like in the first place.
That’s were you’re wrong. I loved Hook in the first place. I was super excited about him, I thought the choice of casting Colin was great, and I appreciated Hook as villain. Just because I call him about on his disgusting actions doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate him as a character and as a villain. He had so much potential, and I do feel like the writers ruinned it.
Because that was not character development. That was a reset button. Let’s forget everything and make him a good guy. Let me remind you, it happen in 5 fucking days. Regina giving Henry up and giving Emma a happy ending in the mid-season finale makes sense because you’ve seen her development and struggle. You’ve seen her fuck up and relapse into her old habit. You’ve seen her struggle to accept ‘sharing’ Henry. You’ve seen her struggle making a truce with Snow. You’ve see her learn to care more about Henry than herself. You didn’t see that with Hook. You’ve seen him flirt with womans, and there’s you’re just expected to believe he is in love with Emma.
I wish A&E wouln’t insult me by expecting me to believe a guy looking for revenge for more than 300 years would just drop everything because he has a crush on a girl that he left to die with all her family 5 days ago. And there’s also the fact that Bae and Milah, who were a huge part in his character in season 2 were just erased in Season 3 to make him all about Emma.
If you just watch Season 3, all you hear is that he did all of that for Emma (the same Emma he betrayed by leaving with the bean and coming back too late 5 days ago). You’d think that Neal and him are just old friends. You’d think that he just don’t like Rumple very much but that’s it. You would never know that Rumple killed Milah, that it destroyed him to the point that he was never able to move on for 300 years. You would never know that Neal is Milah’s son, and that Hook was ready to give up his revenge to take care of his lost love’s son, that he considered being a father to the boy, and that he betrayed him and sold him (a teenager) to the worst man he knew.
They’re erased most of the part that made him Hook, and they’ve reduced him to a Love Interest for Emma. Can you remember one scene in the present that doesn’t tie him back to Emma? I personally can’t. He cannot have a discussion if it’s not about Emma. His whole character is about him trying to get Emma. He has nothing else going on. Even his relationship with Neal. They even made that about Emma. If you’re okay with having Captain Hook as a pathetic lovesick puppy who spend his time trying to get Emma’s validation well, good for you. I’m honestly happy for you because when you’re like me and you expect a better writing, watching this show is hard.
That is not character development, that is character assassination. That is not the Captain Hook I used to love.